Forum for Terris, a ConLang

Creation of the Language => The Lab => Topic started by: 3D X 31 on December 10, 2016, 12:01:30 pm



Title: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: 3D X 31 on December 10, 2016, 12:01:30 pm
Does this language have a name yet? If not perhaps something simple, and something that means "planet earth", like Terran or a variation of the letters TRN, those letters in any order with whatever vowels you want to put before and after the second letter. Not important, but it would be nice to have some kind of name for the language.

Suggestions for key words, nouns and verbs?

Another idea for vocabulary, the word "word" and the sentence "How do you say (___) in (whatever the name of our language is)?
Like: "How do you say 'word' in XXX?" Or "What is the word for 'dog' in XXX?"


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 10, 2016, 12:12:11 pm
Something like Tieran, Teren, Terna, or Tereni might work

I'll work on more ideas once I'm back at a computer


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 10, 2016, 01:02:28 pm
Again, we don't have pronunciation yet, but (these are roots, since we have no conjugation):

Word - ber-
Earth - terr-
Language - Terris (?)
Father - pas-
Mother - mer-
Son - id-
Daughter - id-a
Food - su-

That seem good?


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: 3D X 31 on December 10, 2016, 01:07:03 pm
Again, we don't have pronunciation yet, but (these are roots, since we have no conjugation):

Word - ber-
Earth - terr-
Language - Terris (?)
Father - pas-
Mother - mer-
Son - id-
Daughter - id-a
Food - su-

That seem good?
"YES", but I can only say "yes" in English, until I know what the word for "yes" in Terris is.  :)


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 10, 2016, 01:09:53 pm
Again, we don't have pronunciation yet, but (these are roots, since we have no conjugation):

Word - ber-
Earth - terr-
Language - Terris (?)
Father - pas-
Mother - mer-
Son - id-
Daughter - id-a
Food - su-

That seem good?
"YES", but I can only say "yes" in English, until I know what the word for "yes" in Terris is.  :)

"Sa" or "Sai" as a combination of Ja and Si? I feel like the "ah" vowel sound most clearly articulates "yes", but I don't know what consonant to put


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: 3D X 31 on December 10, 2016, 01:14:18 pm
Again, we don't have pronunciation yet, but (these are roots, since we have no conjugation):

Word - ber-
Earth - terr-
Language - Terris (?)
Father - pas-
Mother - mer-
Son - id-
Daughter - id-a
Food - su-

That seem good?
"YES", but I can only say "yes" in English, until I know what the word for "yes" in Terris is.  :)

"Sa" or "Sai" as a combination of Ja and Si? I feel like the "ah" vowel sound most clearly articulates "yes", but I don't know what consonant to put
Sa


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: evergreen on December 10, 2016, 03:40:42 pm
Does this language have a name yet? If not perhaps something simple, and something that means "planet earth", like Terran or a variation of the letters TRN, those letters in any order with whatever vowels you want to put before and after the second letter. Not important, but it would be nice to have some kind of name for the language.

what if we have consonantal roots, like in the semitic languages?

e.g.
TaRN = earth (n.)
TaRaNa = to land (infinitive)
maTRaN = landing (n.)
and so on


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 10, 2016, 04:24:33 pm
Does this language have a name yet? If not perhaps something simple, and something that means "planet earth", like Terran or a variation of the letters TRN, those letters in any order with whatever vowels you want to put before and after the second letter. Not important, but it would be nice to have some kind of name for the language.

what if we have consonantal roots, like in the semitic languages?

e.g.
TaRN = earth (n.)
TaRaNa = to land (infinitive)
maTRaN = landing (n.)
and so on


I like this idea, actually. It does make it more challenging to both learn and notate, but there are other advantages


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 12, 2016, 06:21:40 am
Now that we have some substantial pronunciation, let's get started on vocabulary!

Here's some of the ideas from earlier, in both consonant root form and the other form that they were in before.

Word - ber-/B-R-S
Earth - terr-/T-R-N
Language - Terris (?)
Father - pas-/P-S-M
Mother - mer-/M-R-M or M-S-M
Son - id-/-D-H
Daughter - id-a/-D-AH
Food - su-/S-D-L



Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: 3D X 31 on December 12, 2016, 07:44:21 am
Soon we will be able to make sentences. We have the word for "mother". To say "My mother is nice" we need three more words.
Certainly the verb "to be" is one of the most important verbs. "My" will be easy to create since we have the word for "I".
Maybe add a suffix to "ilor". "Ilorka"?


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: Figueira on December 12, 2016, 07:46:57 am
So, is "Terris" the Terris word for Terris? Because if so, I'm not sure how the double r is supposed to be pronounced.


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: 3D X 31 on December 12, 2016, 07:51:04 am
Here are some critical words for our vocabulary:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_common_words_in_English

They need to be put into alphabetical order. If nobody else does this, I will make a point of putting them in order
when I get a chance, if you think that that would be useful.
Perhaps I could also come up with a few random words in Terris and someone could decide which English words
to equate them with. As an example the Terris word "sogo" means... ____?
edit: I propose "sogo" = "jelly".


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 12, 2016, 08:42:49 am
So, is "Terris" the Terris word for Terris? Because if so, I'm not sure how the double r is supposed to be pronounced.

Double r is like a single r, I just think it looks nicer. I assume it's a rolled r, although the single r isn't defined as anything


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 12, 2016, 08:43:30 am
Here are some critical words for our vocabulary:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_common_words_in_English

They need to be put into alphabetical order. If nobody else does this, I will make a point of putting them in order
when I get a chance, if you think that that would be useful.
Perhaps I could also come up with a few random words in Terris and someone could decide which English words
to equate them with. As an example the Terris word "sogo" means... ____?
edit: I propose "sogo" = "jelly".

I'd appreciate if you could do that

I do like sogo as jelly, actually


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: 3D X 31 on December 12, 2016, 09:11:14 am
a
about
after
all
also
an
and
any
as
at
back
be
because
but
by
can
come
could
day
do
even
first
for
from
get
give
go
good
have
he
her
him
his
how


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: 3D X 31 on December 12, 2016, 09:12:08 am
Here are some critical words for our vocabulary:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_common_words_in_English

They need to be put into alphabetical order. If nobody else does this, I will make a point of putting them in order
when I get a chance, if you think that that would be useful.
Perhaps I could also come up with a few random words in Terris and someone could decide which English words
to equate them with. As an example the Terris word "sogo" means... ____?
edit: I propose "sogo" = "jelly".

I'd appreciate if you could do that

I do like sogo as jelly, actually
I adding jelly making 101 words. I am putting it in three posts rather than one, because of the length.


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: 3D X 31 on December 12, 2016, 09:13:02 am
I
if
in
into
it
its
jelly
just
know
like
look
make
me
most
my
new
no
not
now
of
on
one
only
or
other
our
out
over
people
say
see
she
so
some


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: 3D X 31 on December 12, 2016, 09:13:48 am
take
than
that
the
their
them
then
there
these
they
think
this
time
to
two
up
us
use
want
way
we
well
what
when
which
who
will
with
work
would
year
you
your


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: evergreen on December 12, 2016, 10:30:55 am
Now that we have some substantial pronunciation, let's get started on vocabulary!

Here's some of the ideas from earlier, in both consonant root form and the other form that they were in before.

Word - ber-/B-R-S
Earth - terr-/T-R-N
Language - Terris (?)
Father - pas-/P-S-M
Mother - mer-/M-R-M or M-S-M
Son - id-/-D-H
Daughter - id-a/-D-AH
Food - su-/S-D-L



proposal:

earth - tarn
of earth / like earth / belonging to earth (?) - tarnuu
our language (nominalised form of that last one) - tarnuun


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: evergreen on December 12, 2016, 10:33:38 am
Here are some critical words for our vocabulary:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_common_words_in_English

They need to be put into alphabetical order. If nobody else does this, I will make a point of putting them in order
when I get a chance, if you think that that would be useful.
Perhaps I could also come up with a few random words in Terris and someone could decide which English words
to equate them with. As an example the Terris word "sogo" means... ____?
edit: I propose "sogo" = "jelly".

a lot of these can (don't have to, but can) be grammatical inflections rather than standalone words

i'd start with this list instead: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swadesh_list


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: 3D X 31 on December 12, 2016, 11:39:46 am
Here are some critical words for our vocabulary:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_common_words_in_English

They need to be put into alphabetical order. If nobody else does this, I will make a point of putting them in order
when I get a chance, if you think that that would be useful.
Perhaps I could also come up with a few random words in Terris and someone could decide which English words
to equate them with. As an example the Terris word "sogo" means... ____?
edit: I propose "sogo" = "jelly".

a lot of these can (don't have to, but can) be grammatical inflections rather than standalone words

i'd start with this list instead: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swadesh_list
OK, I was primarily aiming at including a short list of 100 common words, so if that is a better list, we can use that one instead.
Eventually we can include 850 words:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Basic_English_word_list

sorted alphabetically the same words:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Basic_English_alphabetical_wordlist

Is there also a better list than this? If so I would be interested in seeing it.

(edit: note that the first link sorts words by category and the first list of 100 words seem essential)


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: 3D X 31 on December 12, 2016, 11:47:55 am
Another idea have a suffix for opposites? This would cut the number of words substantially. Hot & Cold. Young & Old. etc
I don't know if it's a good idea, but it could simplify things and make it easier to learn the language more quickly.

Or a prefix nonhot=cold nonold=young or unhot instead of nonhot etc etc
Then there would be halfhot for lukewarm. Maybe zerohot for cold? zero-old or little-old for young.

Has this been tried in any Conlangs before?


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: 3D X 31 on December 12, 2016, 11:51:43 am
Another idea have a suffix for opposites? This would cut the number of words substantially. Hot & Cold. Young & Old. etc
I don't know if it's a good idea, but it could simplify things and make it easier to learn the language more quickly.

Or a prefix nonhot=cold nonold=young or unhot instead of nonhot etc etc
Then there would be halfhot for lukewarm. Maybe zerohot for cold? zero-old or little-old for young.

Has this been tried in any Conlangs before?
If you are speaking another language to someone who doesn't at the same time speak English, you can't say "How do you say 'cold'"? Because that person wouldn't know the meaning of "cold". But, if you remember the word for hot, you could say "what is the opposite of hot?".
My point is, that maybe the idea of simplifying the language with adding an "opposite of" suffix may be unnecessary and therefore a bad idea.
I have a tendency, perhaps an irritating one, of "thinking out loud".


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: evergreen on December 12, 2016, 12:47:16 pm
it's a good idea to have such an inflection, but i would prefer to not use it exclusively (still have separate roots for e.g. "hot" and "cold")

otherwise you have less room for nuance


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 12, 2016, 06:35:40 pm
Now that we have some substantial pronunciation, let's get started on vocabulary!

Here's some of the ideas from earlier, in both consonant root form and the other form that they were in before.

Word - ber-/B-R-S
Earth - terr-/T-R-N
Language - Terris (?)
Father - pas-/P-S-M
Mother - mer-/M-R-M or M-S-M
Son - id-/-D-H
Daughter - id-a/-D-AH
Food - su-/S-D-L



proposal:

earth - tarn
of earth / like earth / belonging to earth (?) - tarnuu
our language (nominalised form of that last one) - tarnuun

How would a double u be pronounced?

Another idea have a suffix for opposites? This would cut the number of words substantially. Hot & Cold. Young & Old. etc
I don't know if it's a good idea, but it could simplify things and make it easier to learn the language more quickly.

Or a prefix nonhot=cold nonold=young or unhot instead of nonhot etc etc
Then there would be halfhot for lukewarm. Maybe zerohot for cold? zero-old or little-old for young.

Has this been tried in any Conlangs before?
If you are speaking another language to someone who doesn't at the same time speak English, you can't say "How do you say 'cold'"? Because that person wouldn't know the meaning of "cold". But, if you remember the word for hot, you could say "what is the opposite of hot?".
My point is, that maybe the idea of simplifying the language with adding an "opposite of" suffix may be unnecessary and therefore a bad idea.
I have a tendency, perhaps an irritating one, of "thinking out loud".

As evergreen said, I like this as a thing to add variance, but not as a standard practice.


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 12, 2016, 06:56:42 pm
I'm comfortable with having conjugation/declension to be done at the beginning/ends of words.

Some potential nominative forms (again with the same list + a couple more, sorry, I'm boring)


Word - beris
Earth - tarn
Father - pasi
Mother - mera
Son - idu
Daughter - ida
Food - suxa
Hair - seyo
Water - abez
Sand - selez
Dirt - mwelez

The endings are inconsistent, and I'm totally open to feedback and all




Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: evergreen on December 13, 2016, 07:57:06 am
Now that we have some substantial pronunciation, let's get started on vocabulary!

Here's some of the ideas from earlier, in both consonant root form and the other form that they were in before.

Word - ber-/B-R-S
Earth - terr-/T-R-N
Language - Terris (?)
Father - pas-/P-S-M
Mother - mer-/M-R-M or M-S-M
Son - id-/-D-H
Daughter - id-a/-D-AH
Food - su-/S-D-L



proposal:

earth - tarn
of earth / like earth / belonging to earth (?) - tarnuu
our language (nominalised form of that last one) - tarnuun

How would a double u be pronounced?

just longer ([uː])


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: evergreen on December 13, 2016, 08:41:20 am
i've started a dictionary (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z7eeaE61NzPZ9eOa_Y7E9csZzArvW3Hbl20JUxXZJdA/edit?usp=sharing) in google sheets (i'm assuming this is a publicly viewable forum, so pm your email for edit access)

keeping it solely to content words and not functional words for now


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: Figueira on December 13, 2016, 08:21:06 pm
We have decided on a phonology and an orthography, but what about phonotactics? I think we need to decide what syllable structures are allowed and what sounds are allowed to appear next to each other before we get too carried away with vocabulary.


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 15, 2016, 05:57:24 am
We have decided on a phonology and an orthography, but what about phonotactics? I think we need to decide what syllable structures are allowed and what sounds are allowed to appear next to each other before we get too carried away with vocabulary.

Yes, good idea. Do you have any ideas?


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: Figueira on December 15, 2016, 02:42:33 pm
We have decided on a phonology and an orthography, but what about phonotactics? I think we need to decide what syllable structures are allowed and what sounds are allowed to appear next to each other before we get too carried away with vocabulary.

Yes, good idea. Do you have any ideas?

I can write something up and post it in another thread and see how people like it or want something else. I'll make it so that all words people have come up with are allowed and we don't need to undo anything.


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 15, 2016, 03:27:15 pm
We have decided on a phonology and an orthography, but what about phonotactics? I think we need to decide what syllable structures are allowed and what sounds are allowed to appear next to each other before we get too carried away with vocabulary.

Yes, good idea. Do you have any ideas?

I can write something up and post it in another thread and see how people like it or want something else. I'll make it so that all words people have come up with are allowed and we don't need to undo anything.

Please do


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: Figueira on December 15, 2016, 10:42:49 pm
Random ideas for cardinal numbers:

1. aym
2. wal
3. con
4. vlare
5. gol
6. fwocp
7. yav
8. meqod
9. mirj
10. oj

What kind of number system do we want?


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 15, 2016, 10:44:35 pm
Random ideas for cardinal numbers:

1. aym
2. wal
3. con
4. vlare
5. gol
6. fwocp
7. yav
8. meqod
9. mirj
10. oj

What kind of number system do we want?

Roman numerals are not great but something similar


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 15, 2016, 10:45:25 pm
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_sUFp0FsHc8E/SmL5d79ro0I/AAAAAAAABU8/xZgAFFT7PZs/s400/Errotarienzenbakiak.jpg)

;)


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: Figueira on December 15, 2016, 10:47:57 pm
Random ideas for cardinal numbers:

1. aym
2. wal
3. con
4. vlare
5. gol
6. fwocp
7. yav
8. meqod
9. mirj
10. oj

What kind of number system do we want?

Roman numerals are not great but something similar


I meant, base-10, base-12, base-14? Also, how irregular should the number words be? E.g. Mandarin has very regular numbers--11 is ten-one, 17 is ten-seven, 34 is three-ten-four, etc. English is less regular, and French is even less regular than English.


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 15, 2016, 11:04:01 pm
Random ideas for cardinal numbers:

1. aym
2. wal
3. con
4. vlare
5. gol
6. fwocp
7. yav
8. meqod
9. mirj
10. oj

What kind of number system do we want?

Roman numerals are not great but something similar


I meant, base-10, base-12, base-14? Also, how irregular should the number words be? E.g. Mandarin has very regular numbers--11 is ten-one, 17 is ten-seven, 34 is three-ten-four, etc. English is less regular, and French is even less regular than English.

Lol. Base ten is fine. I thing regular numbers with contractions is fine


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: Figueira on December 15, 2016, 11:25:41 pm
Random ideas for cardinal numbers:

1. aym
2. wal
3. con
4. vlare
5. gol
6. fwocp
7. yav
8. meqod
9. mirj
10. oj

What kind of number system do we want?

Roman numerals are not great but something similar


I meant, base-10, base-12, base-14? Also, how irregular should the number words be? E.g. Mandarin has very regular numbers--11 is ten-one, 17 is ten-seven, 34 is three-ten-four, etc. English is less regular, and French is even less regular than English.

Lol. Base ten is fine. I thing regular numbers with contractions is fine

I like the contractions idea. How about this:

11. jaym
12. jwal
13. jecon
14. jevlare
15. jegol
16. jefwocp
17. jeyav
18. jemeqod
19. jemirj
20. waloj

I'm not absolutely married to those number names though--TBH, they might be a bit heavy on the consonants.


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 16, 2016, 05:37:34 am
they might be a bit heavy on the consonants.

Yeah, I think "jefwocp" might be a little much.

How about fwe for 6, and qat for 8?

and thus, "jofwe" (jefwe sounds weird) and "jeqat"


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: evergreen on December 16, 2016, 07:06:58 am
i rather like the sound of (je)fwocp tbh

and i love base-12 number systems but i can understand why we might avoid that lol


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: Figueira on December 16, 2016, 09:45:03 am
While I did create the above numbers, I would actually prefer something a little more irregular for the 11-20 numbers.

Also I'm starting to want to keep fwocp actually.


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 16, 2016, 03:03:49 pm
My proposal

0. nue
1. aym
2. wal
3. con
4. vlare
5. gol
6. fwocp
7. yav
8. meqod
9. mirj
10. oj
11. jaym
12. jwal
13. jecon
14. jovlare
15. jegol
16. jefwocp
17. jyav
18. jemeqod
19. jemirj
20. walla
21. waym
22. walawal
etc.

30. cone
40. vlaras
50. golla
60. fwoce
70. yavin
80. meqaca
90. mirija
100. ayid
1000. mixa
1000000. mixain

what do you think


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: Figueira on December 16, 2016, 03:30:36 pm
My proposal

0. nue
1. aym
2. wal
3. con
4. vlare
5. gol
6. fwocp
7. yav
8. meqod
9. mirj
10. oj
11. jaym
12. jwal
13. jecon
14. jovlare
15. jegol
16. jefwocp
17. jyav
18. jemeqod
19. jemirj
20. walla
21. waym
22. walawal
etc.

30. cone
40. vlaras
50. golla
60. fwoce
70. yavin
80. meqaca
90. mirija
100. ayid
1000. mixa
1000000. mixain

what do you think

I like it.  ;D

I'm not sure I understand the "etc." after 22, though, since "waym, walawal" doesn't appear to follow a pattern.


Title: Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary.
Post by: LLR on December 17, 2016, 08:17:37 am
i've started a dictionary (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z7eeaE61NzPZ9eOa_Y7E9csZzArvW3Hbl20JUxXZJdA/edit?usp=sharing) in google sheets (i'm assuming this is a publicly viewable forum, so pm your email for edit access)

keeping it solely to content words and not functional words for now

I've started to update this with full noun forms, FYI