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1  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Grammar and Syntax Megathread on: December 20, 2016, 07:02:13 am
in that second example both words would take the same case markers etc

and you can draw a distinction between (can't think of the right terms right now) an integral relationship (silez hocodj = stardust) and like ownership or whatever (silez hodj[+gen] = a star's dust/dust belonging to a star/whatever)
2  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Grammar and Syntax Megathread on: December 20, 2016, 06:53:23 am
one thing i wanted to propose is a subordinating infix -c-

e.g.
to shinesilnu
the light shining on me… sicilnu …
starhodj
sand, dustsilez
stardustsilez hocodj

(obviously these examples are ignoring other affixes)
3  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Grammar and Syntax Megathread on: December 20, 2016, 06:37:01 am
Do we want to have gendered nouns/adjectives?

Maybe some kind of noun classes that aren't tied to gender?

That seems a good idea

Based on the words we have so far, I think the three options should be "-is" nominatives,  "-ez" nominatives, and "-in" nominatives

How should those decline, then?

Tbh, imo, "-is" and "-ez" are far too similar sounding to really support different sets of inflections over a longer period.

are they though? remember also that final "-is" would be a stressed syllable and final "-ez" would be an unstressed syllable
4  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary. on: December 16, 2016, 07:06:58 am
i rather like the sound of (je)fwocp tbh

and i love base-12 number systems but i can understand why we might avoid that lol
5  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Phonotactics! on: December 15, 2016, 07:33:12 pm
ah! also we should allow w/y + any consonant in the coda
6  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Phonotactics! on: December 15, 2016, 07:30:15 pm
yeah

@evergreen: I was talking about the trilled r; I find cr hard to pronounce in that scenario. But maybe speakers of languages that actually have trills don't have that problem, so the problem is moot.

I also added q and x back into the allowable coda list.
it's common in german too Tongue
(e.g. schreien, Schrank, schrecklich)

I meant [r]. I'm not sure if that's a thing in your dialect or not.
yeh
7  Off-Topic / Off-Topic / Re: Is the previous poster a vowel or a consonant? on: December 15, 2016, 07:18:28 pm
he is in fact three consonants wearing a trenchcoat
8  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Phonotactics! on: December 15, 2016, 07:17:36 pm
rq seems difficult tbh
9  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Phonotactics! on: December 15, 2016, 07:16:09 pm
@evergreen: I was talking about the trilled r; I find cr hard to pronounce in that scenario. But maybe speakers of languages that actually have trills don't have that problem, so the problem is moot.

I also added q and x back into the allowable coda list.
it's common in german too Tongue
(e.g. schreien, Schrank, schrecklich)
10  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Phonotactics! on: December 15, 2016, 05:22:07 pm
should i change "tarn" to "taren" then?

the onset list is p good but

- why jl and not cl (/jr and not cr)?

- i'd like to add fs/ks/ps and vz/gz/bz if y'alls're ok with that

The reason I didn't include sr or jr (or zr or cr) is because it could get hard (though not impossible) to pronounce depending on which version of "r" you're using. But I can change that if you want.
cr is fairly common in english (shrine, shrike, shriek, etc) fwiw
personally i'd include cr/sr but not jr/zr

(also entirely against excluding x from the coda Tongue)
11  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Basic Pronunciation on: December 15, 2016, 06:35:27 am
also syllables where the vowel is e shouldn't count
12  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Basic Pronunciation on: December 15, 2016, 06:34:00 am
What about stress? I think the words that people have come up with so far sound best when the last syllable is stressed. Kind of gives a Hebrew vibe to the language.

Also as I said in another thread we need to figure out phonotactics--I vote we make it fairly lax, but not too much (e.g. sdfwerewr should not be a word). I am willing to help on the specifics of that.

how about "last syllable stressed if it ends with a consonant (or if it's the only syllable lol), second to last syllable otherwise"?

bc i feel like e.g. tarana sounds better with the stress on the second syllable than on the third.
13  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Grammar and Syntax Megathread on: December 13, 2016, 05:04:47 pm
second question (assuming we're covering at least like two or three different features with verb affixes) - fusional or agglutinative? (basically, do we want to have e.g. one affix that means third person singular indicative past tense, or do we accomplish this by stapling together separate affixes that mean one of those things each)

i would strongly prefer the latter
14  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Grammar and Syntax Megathread on: December 13, 2016, 08:52:03 am
imo the first question should be: which features do we want to represent by noun/verb endings and which do we want to represent by modal verbs/adverbs/etc

e.g. latin conveys person, number, tense, mood (indicative/subjunctive/imperative), and voice (active/passive) in its verb endings, while english conveys most of these via modal verbs ("will" etc)
15  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary. on: December 13, 2016, 08:41:20 am
i've started a dictionary in google sheets (i'm assuming this is a publicly viewable forum, so pm your email for edit access)

keeping it solely to content words and not functional words for now
16  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary. on: December 13, 2016, 07:57:06 am
Now that we have some substantial pronunciation, let's get started on vocabulary!

Here's some of the ideas from earlier, in both consonant root form and the other form that they were in before.

Word - ber-/B-R-S
Earth - terr-/T-R-N
Language - Terris (?)
Father - pas-/P-S-M
Mother - mer-/M-R-M or M-S-M
Son - id-/-D-H
Daughter - id-a/-D-AH
Food - su-/S-D-L



proposal:

earth - tarn
of earth / like earth / belonging to earth (?) - tarnuu
our language (nominalised form of that last one) - tarnuun

How would a double u be pronounced?

just longer ([uː])
17  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary. on: December 12, 2016, 12:47:16 pm
it's a good idea to have such an inflection, but i would prefer to not use it exclusively (still have separate roots for e.g. "hot" and "cold")

otherwise you have less room for nuance
18  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary. on: December 12, 2016, 10:33:38 am
Here are some critical words for our vocabulary:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_common_words_in_English

They need to be put into alphabetical order. If nobody else does this, I will make a point of putting them in order
when I get a chance, if you think that that would be useful.
Perhaps I could also come up with a few random words in Terris and someone could decide which English words
to equate them with. As an example the Terris word "sogo" means... ____?
edit: I propose "sogo" = "jelly".

a lot of these can (don't have to, but can) be grammatical inflections rather than standalone words

i'd start with this list instead: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swadesh_list
19  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: A name for the language and other vocabulary. on: December 12, 2016, 10:30:55 am
Now that we have some substantial pronunciation, let's get started on vocabulary!

Here's some of the ideas from earlier, in both consonant root form and the other form that they were in before.

Word - ber-/B-R-S
Earth - terr-/T-R-N
Language - Terris (?)
Father - pas-/P-S-M
Mother - mer-/M-R-M or M-S-M
Son - id-/-D-H
Daughter - id-a/-D-AH
Food - su-/S-D-L



proposal:

earth - tarn
of earth / like earth / belonging to earth (?) - tarnuu
our language (nominalised form of that last one) - tarnuun
20  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Basic Pronunciation on: December 12, 2016, 06:37:55 am
The a in father is [ɑ].

LLR, I would recommend familiarizing yourself with the IPA if you haven't already.

depends on your dialect Tongue
but yeah [ɑ] is good
21  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Basic Pronunciation on: December 11, 2016, 06:32:55 pm
I like this a lot - a few comments:

-I think we want more difference between the "A" and "O" sounds - the o sound in mode is very common and I think that's what the o should be.
-Which "h" sound is this?
-Do we have no "th" sound? (I'm cool with that)
-What "l" sound (closer to a hard "l" or a "w"?)

But everything else is cool.

- sure
- [h] / hair
- yeah. (*)
- [l] / loose

* mostly i just wanted to use every letter of the latin alphabet (except e and y in that draft) for exactly one more or less intuitive sound. c is the only one i'm not really happy with

new idea:
e[ə]neutral, unstressed vowel as in harden
j[ʒ]treasure (write english j sound as dj)
y[j]year
22  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Basic Pronunciation on: December 11, 2016, 03:58:51 pm
a rough proposal:
the vowels
a[æ]?father
i[i]meet
o[ɔ]thought
u[u]loot
the obvious consonants
b
d
f
g
h
k
l
m
n
p
s
t
v
w
z
the less obvious consonants
c[ʃ]shock
j[j]year
q[kʷ]queen except the k/w sounds kinda merge
r[ɹ̠]~[ɻ]~[ʋ]~[ɾ]~[r]~[ʁ]allow all vaguely common r sounds
x[x]loch

in this case, you could write e.g. the ch sound as tc
23  Creation of the Language / The Lab / Re: Basic Pronunciation on: December 11, 2016, 03:34:06 pm
we should consider how large we actually want our vowel inventory (and consonant inventory) to be

english with its 10-13 vowel sounds (plus diphthongs) is very large relative to other languages. many just use three vowels (often /a/, /i/, /u/)
24  Creation of the Language / General Discussion / Re: Ideals on: December 10, 2016, 07:52:36 pm
To boldly split infinitives is a highly controversial grammatical question. I am not sure if it will be an issue, if Terris has infinitives that are one word.

Ideally, yes, they will be one word

doesn't mean you can't split them!  Grin

(that'd be called an infix, as opposed to a prefix/suffix. fun fact: the only infix in english is "fücking", as in "fan-fücking-tastic" or "un-fücking-believable")

e.: do we really have to have the profanity filter here too?

I don't think I can get rid of the filter :/

Just comes as default, I guess...

Just put a BB code thing in between two of the letters and it'll come out fine
good to know, i guess
25  Off-Topic / Off-Topic / Re: Introduction thread on: December 10, 2016, 07:50:30 pm
name: zoë / evergreen
location: rhine rift valley
interests: politics, sci-fi/fantasy, languages, …
religion: eh
languages i speak: english and german fluëntly, french and japanese conversationally, basics of arabic, esperanto, and nahuatl (plus scattered phrases/words from gods know where)
pet peeve: stepping in water while wearing socks
birthday: july 2nd
fav. fictional character: no idea, too many. marco diaz?
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