Figueira
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« on: December 15, 2016, 03:55:25 pm » |
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Phonotactics deals with the combinations of phonemes that are allowed in a language. For example, "pit" can be a word in English, "spit" can be a word in English, but "fpit" can't because f and p can't go together. This video does a good job of explaining it: Anyway, here's my proposal for Terris: Acceptable syllables are (C)(C)V(C)
Here are the consonants/consonant combinations that should be allowed in the onset:
b bl br bw by c cl cw d dj dl dw dz f fl fr fw fy g gl gr gw gy h j jl jw k kl kr kw* ky l m ml mw n nl nw p pl pr pw py q r s sl sw t tc tl ts tw v vl vr vw vy w x y z zl zw
Every consonant is allowed in the coda except h and q.
*this one is pretty similar to q; I'm not sure whether we should include it or not. Let me know what you think!
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LLR
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2016, 04:21:30 pm » |
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I'm not a huge fan of consonant clusters ending in "l" - they sound awkward. Aside from "bl", "gl", "jl", and "vl", i propose we get rid of those. I'll add more later once I finish this essay I have to write.
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Any questions? Feel free to PM me to ask, or post in the "About This Forum" section! Have fun!
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Figueira
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2016, 04:26:03 pm » |
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I'm not a huge fan of consonant clusters ending in "l" - they sound awkward. Aside from "bl", "gl", "jl", and "vl", i propose we get rid of those. I'll add more later once I finish this essay I have to write.
Interesting idea; I actually like the idea of keeping only those four.
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LLR
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2016, 04:30:21 pm » |
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I also support the "sr" and "jr" sounds being included. Also, as an addition to my earlier suggestion, all onsets using plosives - especially double plosives - should be used as infrequently as possible.
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Any questions? Feel free to PM me to ask, or post in the "About This Forum" section! Have fun!
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Figueira
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2016, 04:49:58 pm » |
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I also support the "sr" and "jr" sounds being included. Also, as an addition to my earlier suggestion, all onsets using plosives - especially double plosives - should be used as infrequently as possible.
The reason I didn't include sr or jr (or zr or cr) is because it could get hard (though not impossible) to pronounce depending on which version of "r" you're using. But I can change that if you want. Also I'm now leaning towards not using kw (but still using gw).
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Figueira
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2016, 04:55:48 pm » |
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Updated version (with discussed changes--I also added xw): Acceptable syllables are (C)(C)V(C)
Here are the consonants/consonant combinations that should be allowed in the onset:
b bl br bw by c cw d dj dw dz f fr fw fy g gl gr gw gy h j jl jr(?) jw k kr ky l m mw n nw p pr pw py q r s sr(?) sw t tc ts tw v vl vr vw vy w x xw y z zw
Every consonant is allowed in the coda except h and q.
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LLR
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2016, 04:59:28 pm » |
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May I also suggest excluding "x" from the coda? And perhaps having a few excpetions to the one-consonant coda? ("ng", "sk", "nd", "nt")?
By the way, I totally thank you for doing this and am not just giving you a hard time.
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Any questions? Feel free to PM me to ask, or post in the "About This Forum" section! Have fun!
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Figueira
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2016, 05:15:00 pm » |
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May I also suggest excluding "x" from the coda? And perhaps having a few excpetions to the one-consonant coda? ("ng", "sk", "nd", "nt")?
By the way, I totally thank you for doing this and am not just giving you a hard time.
Excluding x from the coda? Sure. Exceptions to the one-consonant coda rule...sure, but I don't really like the idea of allowing ng. I'll make a potential list of allowable coda clusters.
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evergreen
Junior Contributor
Posts: 27
shrill sjw harpy
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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2016, 05:22:07 pm » |
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should i change "tarn" to "taren" then? the onset list is p good but - why jl and not cl (/jr and not cr)? - i'd like to add fs/ks/ps and vz/gz/bz if y'alls're ok with that The reason I didn't include sr or jr (or zr or cr) is because it could get hard (though not impossible) to pronounce depending on which version of "r" you're using. But I can change that if you want.
cr is fairly common in english (shrine, shrike, shriek, etc) fwiw personally i'd include cr/sr but not jr/zr (also entirely against excluding x from the coda )
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Figueira
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« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2016, 05:28:36 pm » |
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New proposal based on the comments of LLR and evergreen (note that I allowed almost all r clusters in the coda): Acceptable syllables are (C)(C)V(C)(C)
Here are the consonants/consonant clusters that should be allowed in the onset:
b bl br bw by bz c cw d dj dw dz f fr fs fw fy g gl gr gw gy gz h j jl jr(?) jw k kr ks ky l m mw n nw p pr ps pw py q r s sr(?) sw t tc ts tw v vl vr vw vy vz w x xw y z zw
Here are the consonants/consonant clusters that should be allowed in the coda:
b c ck ct cp d f g j l mb mp nd nt p q r rb rd rf rg rj rk rm rn rp rq rs rt rv rx rz s sk st sp t v w x y z @evergreen: I was talking about the trilled r; I find cr hard to pronounce in that scenario. But maybe speakers of languages that actually have trills don't have that problem, so the problem is moot. I also added q and x back into the allowable coda list.
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evergreen
Junior Contributor
Posts: 27
shrill sjw harpy
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2016, 07:16:09 pm » |
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@evergreen: I was talking about the trilled r; I find cr hard to pronounce in that scenario. But maybe speakers of languages that actually have trills don't have that problem, so the problem is moot.
I also added q and x back into the allowable coda list.
it's common in german too (e.g. schreien, Schrank, schrecklich)
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evergreen
Junior Contributor
Posts: 27
shrill sjw harpy
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2016, 07:17:36 pm » |
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rq seems difficult tbh
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Figueira
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« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2016, 07:22:01 pm » |
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@evergreen: I was talking about the trilled r; I find cr hard to pronounce in that scenario. But maybe speakers of languages that actually have trills don't have that problem, so the problem is moot.
I also added q and x back into the allowable coda list.
it's common in german too (e.g. schreien, Schrank, schrecklich) I meant [r]. I'm not sure if that's a thing in your dialect or not.
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Figueira
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« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2016, 07:23:35 pm » |
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rq seems difficult tbh
In the coda?
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evergreen
Junior Contributor
Posts: 27
shrill sjw harpy
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« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2016, 07:30:15 pm » |
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rq seems difficult tbh
In the coda? yeah @evergreen: I was talking about the trilled r; I find cr hard to pronounce in that scenario. But maybe speakers of languages that actually have trills don't have that problem, so the problem is moot.
I also added q and x back into the allowable coda list.
it's common in german too (e.g. schreien, Schrank, schrecklich) I meant [r]. I'm not sure if that's a thing in your dialect or not. yeh
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evergreen
Junior Contributor
Posts: 27
shrill sjw harpy
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« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2016, 07:33:12 pm » |
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ah! also we should allow w/y + any consonant in the coda
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LLR
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« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2016, 07:39:21 pm » |
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ah! also we should allow w/y + any consonant in the coda
So like "isle" and "owl" in English? I like that.
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Any questions? Feel free to PM me to ask, or post in the "About This Forum" section! Have fun!
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Figueira
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« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2016, 07:40:25 pm » |
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ah! also we should allow w/y + any consonant in the coda
Good point. I will add those when I get home.
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Figueira
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« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2016, 07:41:46 pm » |
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ah! also we should allow w/y + any consonant in the coda
So like "isle" and "owl" in English? I like that. I don't think that's a good idea. I would support stuff like wide and down in English though.
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LLR
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« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2016, 08:01:52 pm » |
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ah! also we should allow w/y + any consonant in the coda
So like "isle" and "owl" in English? I like that. I don't think that's a good idea. I would support stuff like wide and down in English though. Oh I just assumed what I said was what evergreen meant... which is it?
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Any questions? Feel free to PM me to ask, or post in the "About This Forum" section! Have fun!
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Figueira
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« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2016, 08:16:04 pm » |
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ah! also we should allow w/y + any consonant in the coda
So like "isle" and "owl" in English? I like that. I don't think that's a good idea. I would support stuff like wide and down in English though. Oh I just assumed what I said was what evergreen meant... which is it? Taken literally her post would encompass both. Anyway, new list: Acceptable syllables are (C)(C)V(C)(C)
Here are the consonants/consonant clusters that should be allowed in the onset:
b bl br bw by bz c cw d dj dw dz f fr fs fw fy g gl gr gw gy gz h j jl jr(?) jw k kr ks ky l m mw n nw p pr ps pw py q r s sr(?) sw t tc ts tw v vl vr vw vy vz w x xw y z zw
Here are the consonants/consonant clusters that should be allowed in the coda:
b c ck ct cp d f g j l mb mp nd nt p q r rb rd rf rg rj rk rm rn rp rs rt rv rx rz s sk st sp t v w wb wd wf wg wj wk wl wm wn wp wq wv wx wz x y yb yd yf yg yj yk yl ym yn yp yq ys yt yv yx yz z
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LLR
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« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2016, 10:16:15 pm » |
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Thanks, Figueira! Big help. What next?
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Any questions? Feel free to PM me to ask, or post in the "About This Forum" section! Have fun!
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Figueira
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« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2016, 10:29:22 pm » |
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Thanks, Figueira! Big help. What next?
I guess if we're sticking with that phonotactics, we can go back to inventing words now.
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