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Basic Pronunciation

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LLR
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« on: December 10, 2016, 10:28:38 am »

Post your suggestions for pronunciation here. I was thinking something not radically different from a Romance/Germanic pronunciation scheme, but perhaps some methods to ensure each sound is distinct and all.

But things like:

Which "r" and "j" sound(s) should we use?
"V", "W", or both?
Do we keep the alphabet the same?
etc.

Please discuss.
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3D X 31
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2016, 11:32:34 am »

Maybe use the English alphabet but make every letter have only one sound. In English Q and X are unnecessary letters since they have the same sound as KW and KS. English doesn't have a letter for the sound in "pleasure" (the "s") the same sound as "J" in the french Je suis.
"C" could be used to make the CH sound. Unless you want to just keep ch for that sound.
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2016, 01:44:44 pm »

I would prefer either Spanish or English pronunciation for aeiou.
This would at least the vowels simple.
Spanish vowels have one sound. English letters aeio could be simplified to the names of those four letters.
u could be like the oo in "moon". Whatever you decide, one sound for each vowel, would be my preference.
As for consonants that is a little more complicated, although most of them would be similar to English, of course.
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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2016, 01:47:12 pm »

I would prefer either Spanish or English pronunciation for aeiou.
This would at least the vowels simple.
Spanish vowels have one sound. English letters aeio could be simplified to the names of those four letters.
u could be like the oo in "moon". Whatever you decide, one sound for each vowel, would be my preference.
As for consonants that is a little more complicated, although most of them would be similar to English, of course.

So something like

a - body
e - send
i - week
o - drone
u - moon

ai - lime
ei/ - same
oi - toilet

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3D X 31
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« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2016, 01:52:55 pm »

I would prefer either Spanish or English pronunciation for aeiou.
This would at least the vowels simple.
Spanish vowels have one sound. English letters aeio could be simplified to the names of those four letters.
u could be like the oo in "moon". Whatever you decide, one sound for each vowel, would be my preference.
As for consonants that is a little more complicated, although most of them would be similar to English, of course.

So something like

a - body
e - send
i - week
o - drone
u - moon

ai - lime
ei/ - same
oi - toilet


yes(sa).. perfect

(edit: I am logging out. I have many things to do. I may return tonight or tomorrow. This is a nice place. Thanks for creating it.)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 01:57:11 pm by 3D X 31 » Report Spam   Logged
Figueira
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2016, 02:15:58 pm »

Can we also have the letter y making the same sound it does in IPA (French u)?
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LLR
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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2016, 02:23:45 pm »

Can we also have the letter y making the same sound it does in IPA (French u)?

So the "o" in done?
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2016, 03:34:06 pm »

we should consider how large we actually want our vowel inventory (and consonant inventory) to be

english with its 10-13 vowel sounds (plus diphthongs) is very large relative to other languages. many just use three vowels (often /a/, /i/, /u/)
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2016, 03:58:51 pm »

a rough proposal:
the vowels
a[æ]?father
i[i]meet
o[ɔ]thought
u[u]loot
the obvious consonants
b
d
f
g
h
k
l
m
n
p
s
t
v
w
z
the less obvious consonants
c[ʃ]shock
j[j]year
q[kʷ]queen except the k/w sounds kinda merge
r[ɹ̠]~[ɻ]~[ʋ]~[ɾ]~[r]~[ʁ]allow all vaguely common r sounds
x[x]loch

in this case, you could write e.g. the ch sound as tc
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 04:00:36 pm by evergreen » Report Spam   Logged
LLR
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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2016, 04:41:36 pm »

a rough proposal:
the vowels
a[]?father
i[i]meet
o[ɔ]thought
u[u]loot
the obvious consonants
b
d
f
g
h
k
l
m
n
p
s
t
v
w
z
the less obvious consonants
c[ʃ]shock
j[j]year
q[kʷ]queen except the k/w sounds kinda merge
r[ɹ̠]~[ɻ]~[ʋ]~[ɾ]~[r]~[ʁ]allow all vaguely common r sounds
x[x]loch

in this case, you could write e.g. the ch sound as tc

I like this a lot - a few comments:

-I think we want more difference between the "A" and "O" sounds - the o sound in mode is very common and I think that's what the o should be.
-Which "h" sound is this?
-Do we have no "th" sound? (I'm cool with that)
-What "l" sound (closer to a hard "l" or a "w"?)

But everything else is cool.
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« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2016, 06:32:55 pm »

I like this a lot - a few comments:

-I think we want more difference between the "A" and "O" sounds - the o sound in mode is very common and I think that's what the o should be.
-Which "h" sound is this?
-Do we have no "th" sound? (I'm cool with that)
-What "l" sound (closer to a hard "l" or a "w"?)

But everything else is cool.

- sure
- [h] / hair
- yeah. (*)
- [l] / loose

* mostly i just wanted to use every letter of the latin alphabet (except e and y in that draft) for exactly one more or less intuitive sound. c is the only one i'm not really happy with

new idea:
e[ə]neutral, unstressed vowel as in harden
j[ʒ]treasure (write english j sound as dj)
y[j]year
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 06:35:18 pm by evergreen » Report Spam   Logged
LLR
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« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2016, 06:47:40 pm »

I like this a lot - a few comments:

-I think we want more difference between the "A" and "O" sounds - the o sound in mode is very common and I think that's what the o should be.
-Which "h" sound is this?
-Do we have no "th" sound? (I'm cool with that)
-What "l" sound (closer to a hard "l" or a "w"?)

But everything else is cool.

- sure
- [h] / hair
- yeah. (*)
- [l] / loose

* mostly i just wanted to use every letter of the latin alphabet (except e and y in that draft) for exactly one more or less intuitive sound. c is the only one i'm not really happy with

new idea:
e[ə]neutral, unstressed vowel as in harden
j[ʒ]treasure (write english j sound as dj)
y[j]year

Even better. I suppose that settles it, then (Huh). I'll post a quick guide at some point between now and later.
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« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2016, 07:13:23 pm »

The a in father is [ɑ].

LLR, I would recommend familiarizing yourself with the IPA if you haven't already.
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2016, 06:37:55 am »

The a in father is [ɑ].

LLR, I would recommend familiarizing yourself with the IPA if you haven't already.

depends on your dialect Tongue
but yeah [ɑ] is good
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« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2016, 07:38:39 am »

Perhaps we could use Q without the following U for all loan words beginning with the K sound (including C words that start with the K sound). Unless a loanword starts cu or ku in which case we could use the K.
So "Coal" would be "Qoal" and "King" would be "Qing" (just an example, since we could have Terris words for "coal" and "King").
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2016, 08:51:08 pm »

What about stress? I think the words that people have come up with so far sound best when the last syllable is stressed. Kind of gives a Hebrew vibe to the language.

Also as I said in another thread we need to figure out phonotactics--I vote we make it fairly lax, but not too much (e.g. sdfwerewr should not be a word). I am willing to help on the specifics of that.
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« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2016, 05:56:41 am »

What about stress? I think the words that people have come up with so far sound best when the last syllable is stressed. Kind of gives a Hebrew vibe to the language.

Also as I said in another thread we need to figure out phonotactics--I vote we make it fairly lax, but not too much (e.g. sdfwerewr should not be a word). I am willing to help on the specifics of that.

I like the first suggestion.
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« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2016, 06:34:00 am »

What about stress? I think the words that people have come up with so far sound best when the last syllable is stressed. Kind of gives a Hebrew vibe to the language.

Also as I said in another thread we need to figure out phonotactics--I vote we make it fairly lax, but not too much (e.g. sdfwerewr should not be a word). I am willing to help on the specifics of that.

how about "last syllable stressed if it ends with a consonant (or if it's the only syllable lol), second to last syllable otherwise"?

bc i feel like e.g. tarana sounds better with the stress on the second syllable than on the third.
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« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2016, 06:35:27 am »

also syllables where the vowel is e shouldn't count
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« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2016, 11:38:06 am »

Sounds like a plan to me
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« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2016, 02:38:36 pm »

I also like evergreen's idea.
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« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2016, 10:50:02 am »

Phonological inventory looks fine to me, don't you think though that all three of /b v w/ might be a bit much? Very few languages other than English have all three, and if our language is spoken, I'd assume most dialects would simplify to two or even just one forms ( just /β/ and /w/ for example).

Secondly, for the romanisation, why not take "x" for the sh-sound and "c" (or "ch") for the ch-sound? X for sh is common in many natural languages (Catalan, some South American Indian languages...), while I have never seen c for sh, tbh.
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« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2016, 02:30:25 pm »

Phonological inventory looks fine to me, don't you think though that all three of /b v w/ might be a bit much? Very few languages other than English have all three, and if our language is spoken, I'd assume most dialects would simplify to two or even just one forms ( just /β/ and /w/ for example).

Secondly, for the romanisation, why not take "x" for the sh-sound and "c" (or "ch") for the ch-sound? X for sh is common in many natural languages (Catalan, some South American Indian languages...), while I have never seen c for sh, tbh.

I actually think the "C" as sh and "TC" as ch makes sense... I also like having a letter for the hard h sound. But I agree that dialects would prove one of b, v, and w unnecessary. Which do y'all want to cut?
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« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2016, 12:33:11 pm »

Phonological inventory looks fine to me, don't you think though that all three of /b v w/ might be a bit much? Very few languages other than English have all three, and if our language is spoken, I'd assume most dialects would simplify to two or even just one forms ( just /β/ and /w/ for example).

Secondly, for the romanisation, why not take "x" for the sh-sound and "c" (or "ch") for the ch-sound? X for sh is common in many natural languages (Catalan, some South American Indian languages...), while I have never seen c for sh, tbh.

I actually think the "C" as sh and "TC" as ch makes sense... I also like having a letter for the hard h sound. But I agree that dialects would prove one of b, v, and w unnecessary. Which do y'all want to cut?

Alright. With "hard h" you mean the IPA [ x ], right?

If it were up to me, I'd keep [ b ] as is, spelled /b/ obv, and have [v] and [w] as allophones (or even just [v] and a labialisation of the preceeding/suceeding sound), depending on the environment - idk, have [v] in consonantic and [w] in vocalic environments, so for example /arva/ as [arwa] and /arevta/ as [arevta*], or whatever you prefer.

*or ideally [arevda] or [arefta], since differences in voicing between stops and fricatives mostly sound weird and are quite hard to do, imo, and get simplified very often.
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« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2016, 02:45:03 pm »

Yes, sounds good.
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